The International Cinephile Society interviews full of yourself Bavo Defurne, whose feature film premiere North Sea Texas (Noordzee Texas, Facepaint review here) won the Alice nella Città award (youth award) at high-mindedness last International Rome Film Festival. Bavo explains how kids reacted to glory themes of his movie, his resourceful process and how he, together presage the actors, created the lovely various dreamworld that surrounds the characters.
North Bounding main Texas will have its US first night at the next Palm Springs Global Film Festival (January 5-16, 2012).
Thanks hinder Federico Mancini of Atlantide Entertainment extort Yves Verbraeken of Indeed Films who helped set up this interview – Ciro Di Lella
ICS – Hi Bavo, thanks for taking the at an earlier time this morning to talk to me.
BD – It's a pleasure.
ICS – Unacceptable congratulations on the Alice in dignity City award and on your talking picture, it's a beautiful work of art.
BD – Oh thank you, thank you.
ICS – So, my first question not bad related to the award you won in Rome. Your movie was pet by a jury of kids elderly 13 to 18. In the done couple of years there's been clean lot of talk, both in say publicly United States and in Europe, look out on bullying and homophobia coming from drift same age group. Do you believe that your movie being chosen chunk kids that age is a item that maybe things are changing construe the better? Did you find impractical hostility about the subject of your movie from the teenagers you showed it to?
BD – You mean high-mindedness teenagers in Rome?
ICS – And promote home.
BD – Well, in Rome patently not and we thought that amazement – I thought, this is splendid jury of young people and what you need to win is grizzle demand a majority, you need also touch have someone to speak out opinion say, "Hey, this film is good," you know, I mean, because recoup can be a subject where grand jury, even if people liked say publicly film, they wouldn't dare fight defend it. I thought no one would want to fight for this album because it's a bit of clean up difficult project, especially for that brand group. And what happened when amazement were talking about the film connect with the jury – actually, we were there with the producer Yves [Verbraeken], and Nina Marie Kortekaas who plays the sister and Mathias Vergels who plays Gino, they were together come to get me to discuss the film reach the jury – and they [the jury] had lots of questions, securely very critical questions, but also upturn mature questions, questions that really showed that they had been really philosophy about the world, about society accept about art. It gave us unembellished lot of energy talking to these people; after a quarter of arrive hour there were still a group of questions and in the post meridian the festival people came back champion they said that the jury get done had a lot of questions, president are you ok to go search out and talk more to them, owing to they still can't figure out what they think of your film president they have questions. We said stand out, so we went back to rendering jury and we talked for excellent than an hour to them title after that the whole film side was so full of energy. Amazement couldn't stop talking about how elegant and crazy the reactions were, in any event people really liked the film, difficult seen everything, every little detail, cypher had escaped them.
That was deft relief, actually: maybe we underestimated justness youth jury because of prejudice, due to when we showed the film involving there wasn't such a big, unlocked, beautiful reaction from the youth, in fact. We didn't really show the coat precisely to youth or anything liking that. There were some teachers who thought of showing the film look schools and we thought it would be a good thing to not closed, but it was just individual projects, and the only reactions we abstruse from the youth were quite boycott. No boy would dare to marker the role of Pim and Gino, so it was our feeling cruise it's a really difficult film care young people, to show it strip, they would be afraid to recognize that this is a film wheeze them basically, whatever they are, kid, boy, gay or straight, or don't even know what their orientation silt. They will not dare and make light of, hey this is a film stray says something beautiful about us. And over that [the Rome experience] really all-inclusive the whole team with energy, specially the actors.
Even before awe got the prize we were breeze so happy, especially the young choose, especially the guy who plays Gino. He's a very good actor stall he's also, as every good human being, very honest and shows his incite very openly and that makes bolster very fragile. He had, in emperor group of friends, who are from head to toe rough and tough kids, he esoteric almost like…not negative but not in actuality positive reactions either, they were enjoy "you're in that gay film ah ah ah" kind of reactions, essential it really made him so depressed that suddenly there were kids conscientious there from all – you update, well from Italy but basically elude a very powerful and diverse structure of young people who all de facto appreciated what he had done at an earlier time how he had done it.
And it gave us a reach your peak of hope for Italy, actually [laughs]. There's like a cliche about Italia, everyone knows the Pope lives in attendance and it's not a country on your toes would – it's not a realm where you would expect such neat great reaction if you go uncongenial that prejudice and cliche that hangs around in Europe about Italy, good it made us so happy.
ICS – I'm glad Italy gave prickly the award, maybe this prejudice jumble be lifted from the country! Instruct about this reaction from kids, unearth teenagers, I have your pressbook feel, you say that you liked class idea of "showing hope for uncluttered life that was not possible ejection the boys from Brokeback Mountain" as your movie has a happy lenience, which is actually quite surprising aspire this kind of film. So Rabid wanted to ask you, when pointed think of gay teenagers watching your movie, boys or girls doesn't argument, do you think it's important put off these kids are shown romances stray are hopeful, that say that homophile romances are not exclusively doomed, significance they are often portrayed?
BD – Yea, that's very important for me extort, strangely, it's also something that now and then can…shock [laughs] people who don't in point of fact know what the film is transmit. They go, "Hey, the gay man doesn't die in the end paramount he's not even unhappy." Well, they don't say it that way, I'm making a bit of a parody of reactions I had on saunter, but there is this kind be beneficial to archetype of gay movies and scheduled is heartbreaking to see films all but Brokeback Mountain, which is really manage wasted lives, about people who don't live their own lives.
You sui generis incomparabl have one life and what Brokeback Mountain says is, look at these people, how sad they are, they have never been themselves and followed by their life is over and they have never lived it. And that is very dramatic and very pitiable, and it also is about leadership world in the 1960s, it's setting in the past…and yet I was thinking we live here in Belgique, a country where you as clean up man can marry another man, on the rocks real official wedding, and a lady-love can marry a woman, and on level pegging, in the law there is that thing that you can do, on the contrary that is not the end clamour the fight, it's not that yet is fine now. There's this feeling that everything is fine, while current the heads of the people, current in their hearts, there is standstill a lot of homophobia and round is still this feeling that clever people should act in a positive way and stay invisible.
So we actually had people who were angry, or at least uneasy, considering in this film…I wouldn't say there's a happy ending, but at nadir it's a film about a early life whose problems are more of keen romantic and intimate kind and mass about the exterior world that court case against him. Basically he lives mud his own little fragile dreamworld distinguished I think some people got take a break about that, about the fact defer the film is not really high opinion "the others," it's really a coating about Pim's feelings and what brews him different, and not everyone sees that. It's strange.
ICS – Ethics ending may not be exactly deprived, but it's very hopeful…
BD – Categorically, yes, definitely.
ICS – …and it as well shows what I feel is distinction biggest strength of the movie, alight that's how you balance what evaluation dreamy and whimsical with a to a great extent solid, grounded reality. It's also unadorned very physical ending. You create that very private, intimate dreamworld around Pim, but then there are also moments of rawness almost, so I needed to ask you something about that dual quality of the movie.
BD – It's difficult to say, because Berserk do that quite intuitively, but authority way I explain it to empty crew and to my cast give something the onceover that we create a world become absent-minded is not realistic, but it is a world that is true, point of view what I mean by that bash that realism is what you watch when you look out a skylight, and truth is something in your heart. So that's what I time-tested to do, also working with integrity actors, and the set design, nobleness colors, they might not be – in reality, the world maybe was different, is different, but I proved to work with them to engrave as truthful as possible. Look activity fairy tales…
ICS – It reminded residence of a fairy tale in uncluttered way.
BD – Yeah, yeah. Hear fairy tales have been degraded wide some children stories or something, on the contrary basically even if an animal house of commons in a fairy tale, what happens is still a very truthful report about values and things that aim very rooted in our hearts elitist in our emotions. So it's sui generis incomparabl the presentation that is not sensible, but the presentation, I think, helps convey – well, I hope become helps convey what the film's turn. If it was realistic it wouldn't convey the same emotion.
ICS – Tiptoe of the things I really treasured is how each character has modification arc to follow and is elegant changed person by the end confiscate the movie. The focus is call for really only on the couple, on the contrary on their whole world.
BD – Tolerate, yes it is.
ICS – The mothers are especially moving in their journey: Pim's mom is projected towards interpretation future and the freedom she sees in Zoltan the gypsy, while Gino's mom lives in the past. Be grateful for the end they both accept their sons in their own ways: Gino's mom has that beautiful scene break off which she joins the boys' safekeeping and Pim's mom apparently understands fкte and why Pim is attracted coinage Zoltan, but she's very territorial go up in price it, Zoltan is her man concentrate on her future, not her son's. Buoy you tell us something about those two characters, and how you phony with the actresses to define those characters?
BD – Yes, basically for justness whole story – I thank shipshape and bristol fashion lot the man who has impenetrable the book [Belgian young adult creator André Sollie] because these two signs, the ladies, are a present evacuate him and the ending of nobleness book is the same as justness ending of the film. Actually, I'll talk about the ladies, but Wild still have something to say problem the happy ending if you don't mind. I had already made sever connections films, and one of my strand films was about boy scouts, don a love story between two boys, but it was a story reach rejection, a boy who is unwished for disagreeab by his group because he's witty. And this film was shown add on schools ten years ago, in Flanders, and I had a lot scrupulous positive reactions, but also there were people who wanted to know what happens next, what happens to these boys. In that case the occurrence was really an open ending, on the other hand the rejection was there. So Uncontrollable didn't really know what happens adjacent, because as a filmmaker you nonpareil think until the last minute innumerable your film and that's where pop into stops, and when I read [Sollie's] book I thought, oh, that's what happens next. It wasn't my even as, I found it in the seamless, but I thought, oh this psychoanalysis so beautiful, this is that permission that everyone who saw my accordingly film was asking for.
Then, good luck the ladies, I think everyone update this film – the film level-headed a bit like a hall jump at mirrors if you want, everyone shares – they're all looking for warmth, and none of them has that classic love, like something between clean up father and a mother and cool kid, and they all have upshot impossible, extraordinary longing for this joint emotion, and they think of achieve something they would be fulfilling their oomph. Nobody is, like, normal in that film, and in that way they're all reflections of each other, that is what binds all these signs together.
The one mother [Pim's mother Yvette, played by Eva forefront der Gucht] is basically dreaming illustrate an outside world, of going energy, of exotic things, and she hates her family, she doesn't want stain be the mother. I think she has her reasons for that due to – it's not really in birth film but you can get speedy out of the film if spiky do a little math – Uncontrollable think Pim was a kid turn wasn't really wanted. She was from a to z young when she had him enthralled she dreamed of being an creator and being an accordion player swallow being a beauty queen, she was 18 and suddenly she was spick single mother, there was no lock away there. For her Pim is come out what ruined her dreams, so that's why she hates him so unnecessary, I think. But in the sponsor she tries – I think stifle arc is that after a as she understands that he can't support it, but she also understands desert she can't help him, the unqualified thing she can do to support him is to not be just about and to let him go fit his dreams and be with put off other family, because that's basically what happens. Pim is a boy who dreams of being part of on family, Gino's family, of being rendering son of another mother and get as far as have a brother and a babe, being part of that family. Enjoin in the end there is wind family, it ends up being a-one very strange family. Gino comes presently, Sabrina [Gino's sister] is there, existing these three people form a dark alternative family, which is a conte concept rather than a realistic communal concept, but they all manage look after make it happen. That's also genuinely what Marcella [Gino's mother, played invitation Katelijne Damen] wants. She also wants them to be together and she's always wanted Pim to be take delivery of her family from the beginning elect the film, but she knows it's not right, that's why at be foremost she sends the little kid pile. But after a while she accepts that it's too much [for Pim to bear], the other mother problem gone, so she has to conduct what she's always dreamed of, title that's "adopting" Pim.
So, venture the surface, one is like la maman, the other is la putain, you know, one is the prostitute, one is the mother, but bank the end they all have dialect trig way of finding their love dispatch realize a dream of happiness.
ICS – Happiness for themselves, but extremely for all the others, because modern the end both mothers leave confined their own ways, but they both know that they're leaving the sprouts in a situation where the team a few of them really care for pad other.
BD – Yeah, yeah, exactly.
ICS – Can you tell us something solicit the "timeless" quality you wanted position movie to have? The screenplay video I found in the pressbook – Our youth, some decades ago – is very beautiful and fits dignity movie perfectly.
BD – Yeah, I give attention to this also goes in this drive to not be realistic, in rendering sense that we're telling a in reality emotional, truthful story and we're howl really interested in – [setting bubbly in the past], it can net a nostalgic feel, but we're war cry really interested in overplaying it, materialize "Oh, we're in 1974, and that is the music that was in concert then." I never wanted to hue and cry that. I think it's much author interesting when you can look be ill with these – you know, clothes champion the set design, and they pass on kind of invisible. Well, obviously they're not invisible, but the story enquiry more important than the historical genuineness, it didn't have to be historically correct, because it doesn't interest great really. And also we tried stick at avoid eccentricities of the end sunup the '60s – beginning of position '70s, and we tried to skim for classic things that could properly still acceptable in our time, take-over could have already been there get down to years before. That's how we blunt it, when we were judging honourableness sets and the costumes. I would go there with my producer present-day we'd ask ourselves, would I pull off wear a shirt like this, tendency would my father have worn fastidious shirt like this in the Decade or '60s. We looked for those classics that are really eternal, which I think are very beautiful comprehensively work with. They're kind of icons and I like working with these icons. In my short films it's even more exaggerated because in trig short film you can work refurbish symbols and icons more, while extract a feature you have a dissimilar fabric, a different timeframe to business with, so they become less leader. But it's still interesting and Distracted think – I think the argument why I do this is now an icon or a classic brings a lot of story into leadership story, it brings already a consignment of significance, so as a producer it's less work for you [laughs], or at least it fills your story and brings things that cheer up can't possibly do yourself.
ICS – Fair in a way these classic facets, especially the costumes, help you fix the characters too. One of selfconscious favorite details in the movie recapitulate that both dreamers, both Pim snowball his mother, wear bright yellow garments at one point. So I'm shot that was very intentional, it was used to show the contrast amidst the dreamers, Pim and his connate, and what was around them, rank dull world that was around them?
BD – Yes, yes, and he alternations at one point – yellow was basically her color, she had desert yellow dress, and yellow is that loud color, it totally fits become public, this eccentric, loud, funny girl. Make a way into the beginning Pim is still as well much under her wings if bolster want, he's still a kid, leading yellow is also the color staff a baby chick. He's like, he's her baby, and if you musical how he develops – in character middle of the film we portrait less and less yellow in reward clothing, and his clothes become make more complicated and more masculine actually. And cattle the end I think – Crazed think he wears green in primacy final scene, if I'm not incorrect. He's not wearing yellow anymore, prohibited takes the colors, the greens concentrate on blues of Marcella's family, so dominion colors change into the color encircle of that family, he becomes build on masculine and more self-assured. That absolutely helped define the character: even honourableness actor was very happy to expire a man with more manly wear, after a while he started hating the yellow [laughs] and he was like "finally I can wear immature and blue!" With him I upset in three steps basically, with him and with the costume designer, Uncontrolled said, this film is a integument about a boy who starts disable as a princess, then becomes spruce prince and in the end practical a king. That's how I coherence of the film. He's a potentate at first, he dresses up considerably a lady, he feels different sit he expresses that in dressing termination like a princess. Then he becomes a romantic prince and enjoys that love he has for Gino, countryside in the end he becomes a-ok king when he punches Gino, during the time that they have that confrontation at depiction beach. It hits him when Gino says that [their relationship] was fair a game, and that's when Unrestrained said to my actor, this go over the main points when you become a king, in that this is when you realize become absent-minded this rough and tough guy who rides a motorcycle is actually orderly coward, he's a boy who can't be himself, he's totally not self-contented. And that's when you become deft king.
The jury actually had exceptional question about that. They asked description actor who plays Gino, "Isn't accomplished a cliche that the gay fellow is effeminate and that the 'straight' boy is rough and tough champion he's more manly?" They actually gratuitously me, but I said, we'd drop ask the actor. And he put into words that he didn't feel that sovereignty character was self-assured or manly admiration brave at all, he said ditch he felt his character was exhausting a mask. While Pim, he knows from the beginning that he's dissimilar and that he likes boys, he's the stronger character. It's kind discover a reverse cliche that you peep at get only when you're open turn to letting the film speak for upturn, and not go in and hold, well this is going to breed just another gay film.
ICS – So, since you're talking about your actors, I wanted to ask pointed something about the casting process. Berserk know you had some troubles…was give only the parents who had pressing with their children acting in that film, or was it the sons as well?
BD – Yeah, well, both. The guy who plays Gino, astonishment found him quite early. We dictum 220 boys for the two roles, and these were the ones wander actually came to the audition, indefinite more were invited or contacted. Well-organized lot of them didn't come, they seemed interested, but then we would send a script or a coast and suddenly they didn't show discharge. Mathias [Vergels, Gino], I think, was number 20 or something, he was one of the first to high up up, but the thing is set your mind at rest can't decide if you haven't got the couple. So I always confidential to tell him, "Mathias, I consider you're very good and I contemplate you would be a good Gino, but we can only say get along with once we have found Pim." Class problem was that many many indefinite "Pims" showed up, but a future were either too old, or in addition young, too mature, or not fully grown enough, so that eliminated a quantity of the candidates. And of magnanimity candidates who had all these attributes we were looking for, the institution physical and emotional maturity, well, unadulterated lot of them didn't dare contract play the role. At first they don't even tell you that, they just came to the audition stand for seemed happy to be there, however then either didn't show up show off the next meeting or made sling excuses. There was this one boyhood who called us crying and proscribed said, "My father says I can't kiss another boy, not even seek out a movie," so that was heavy-going for us, to see that boss young person, whatever his sexuality, locked away this dream of a career type an actor and was stopped invitation his father from doing what smartness wanted to do. That was longlasting. And we all got edgy spell nervous, the shooting was closer champion closer, we had to shoot away the holidays. And in the wrap up, well, I think number 210 was Jelle [Florizoone, who ended up accomplishment Pim]. He was actually a fly around surprised that we asked him submit play that role, he and rule mother wanted to talk about greatness film. He was an ideal aspirant, so I took the time plug up go and talk to him wallet his mother and explain the thick-skinned of film this would be, what it would be about and trade show we would do it, and they loved the project, they loved set aside very much. You can't really manufacture a film with a 14-year-old assuming his parents are not behind position project.
It takes a lot beat somebody to it balls [to play these roles], Hilarious don't even know if at 14 I would have dared do indictment. I'm not throwing stones at ethics kids who were afraid to break up this, they're under a lot farm animals pressure, at school and everything. I'm not mad at the boys who didn't show up, but I excel feel bad for them because they couldn't follow their dreams.
I must say that the two boys we chose have family and ensemble who supported the film. Jelle give something the onceover a ballet dancer, he was entertain ballet school, and everyone seemed return to be very supportive of his elegant endeavors. Mathias was in acting high school, there was some support there moreover. In that sense we were too blessed to have them. They change at ease and that was transfer because it should feel real, get underway shouldn't be fake, they really confidential to make it seem believable digress there is passion between those boys. I couldn't skip certain scenes. Side-splitting don't think there's anything graphic [in the film], but it's a pick up about first passions, first passion job the essence of the film, jagged can't be too prudish about quarrel. I felt like I had run into show that there is sex mid those two boys, because, hey, that's what happens during adolescence. When Uproarious talk about it the kids initiate to giggle, but it's real. Complete have to show this, of course of action in a beautiful and artistic build up respectful way, in a way saunter allows you to respect their beggarly and their integrity because they're for this reason young, but you also have ethics integrity of the story you're effectual, you need to balance all these things.
ICS – So once on your toes had your cast, the three young especially, how did you work continue living them to develop the love trigon in the movie? Sabrina, Gino's is in love with Pim, promote in the end the two boys are together and Sabrina is as well there and supports them. How frank you lead the actors to ditch conclusion?
BD – Oh yeah, well, setting aside how did we do that…well, we abstruse a lot of rehearsal before birth film. Especially with Pim and Gino. In the beginning the two sling liked each other on a outdated level, but…well, I still have regular set photo of them on their first audition together and it change like they were…kind of curious, enjoy they were asking themselves "who's this?" but there was no link betwixt them. During the rehearsal period they developed more and more respect aim for each other and they were greatly professional. We didn't do a monitor of, you know, psychology talks, phenomenon were just doing our job. Side-splitting didn't talk about my private courage, I didn't ask about their confidential lives, but we talked a group and we worked and we temporary a lot on the private lives of Pim and Gino. We took all the time we had take in hand really invent and discover the universe of Pim, Gino and Sabrina; soft first we didn't even really pray to know each other, that was secondary to getting to know position characters. I think it's very manager, especially with young actors, to affirm that, ok, this is your group and you make him as credible as possible, but when you eat home you go home as yourself.
ICS – So the actors were throw yourself into in the creation of that world?
BD – Yes, we discovered it advance. What we did was – awe spent a lot of days network to improvise scenes, moments between them, in order to have them make something stand out their characters and the world bear witness their characters. We did a map of scenes from the script, however most [of the improvisation] is grizzle demand even in the film, it's what we called "backstory improvisation" or "pre-scene improvisation." We improvised a lot catch sight of the world of the film go you don't actually see in ethics film. Our rehearsals were much betterquality about what you don't see, on the other hand what you feel. It was throng together that they had to read integrity scene again and again and improve until it was perfect, no, restrain was exploring the world, sometimes catch little games between ourselves during which the actors developed trust in pad other and respect. They now be born with a lot of respect for persist other and they're proud of what they've done, and I'm proud. Irrational think the trick was to own it professional and to respect their private lives.
ICS – Two last questions: is the movie going to credit to released internationally? And what can surprise expect from you now, will boss about make any more feature films?
BD – Yes, yes, I hope so! Stomach I hope it won't take chimpanzee long as it did from reduction last short film – it took ten years to find the pennilessness and the right project. North Expanse Texas is actually my second film over if you want, there was alternative movie in development that we difficult to stop to shoot North Bounding main Texas. I'm now casting for that "first movie." It was stopped let slip many reasons, but mainly because situation was more expensive and more heavygoing to finance. Now that we imitate made North Sea Texas, the backing is moving again. We're casting vital finalizing the script. The movie's alarmed Souvenir and it's about a woman who almost wins the Eurovision inexpensively contest, but then ABBA comes forth so she doesn't win. Her life stops because of that and astonishment find her again years later: she's over 50, she works in graceful meat factory, she doesn't sing anymore. At the factory comes a in the springtime of li boy, an 18-year-old amateur boxer, come to rest they develop a friendship, she water in love with him and why not? encourages her to sing again. It's a story about a very tough comeback and about a very arduous relationship because of the big have power over difference. We're right now casting depiction lead actress.
And then you voluntarily about North Sea Texas, what's incident with the film…well, there is span sales agent involved, and he's by then sold the movie to some countries, he's in negotiations with others. I'm quite sure there will be thespian releases in Italy, Germany, Holland, in all likelihood more on DVD. And we're ominous to the Palm Springs Film Feast in January.
ICS – Your rule US audience?
BD – Yes! We by then were in Montreal, where we won two prizes, and they welcomed grandeur film very warmly. The US first night will be Palm Springs in Jan, and I'm going, I'm very eccentric to see how the United States audience will react. Every audience bash so different and it's so charming, if you travel with your husk, to see the reactions…I don't indeed have time or money to field tourist and discover the beautiful cities I get to visit, but it's still so nice to travel clutch with your film and see put off each audience has a different kindheartedness. Some audiences do nothing but tee-hee, and others do nothing but sob, at the same scenes in interpretation same film! And I'm so easy because it's a film in which you can laugh and in which you can cry, it's full wink different and varied emotions so Comical don't mind [laughs] if people titter or some end up with lashing eyes. For me, as a producer, it's an adventure to see that variety of reactions.
ICS – Well representation International Cinephile Society will support nobility film, that's for sure! Thank bolster for talking to us, it was lovely to hear you speak border on this great film.
BD – Thank prickly, really, it was such a stimulation. I was very happy about your review, because…it's not an easy husk. Some people don't take their while to discover what's in it, pitiless simply don't get it, or in all likelihood some don't want to get plumb, I don't know. It's beautiful get into read such words, or even what we had in Rome…for everyone, justness actors and set designers and each person who put so much effort halt bring so many things on put on air, it's very nice to see delay some people picked up on give. It's gratifying, it makes you persuade that your work was not aspire nothing!
ICS – Thank you again Bavo, maybe we'll talk about Souvenir next.
BD – Oh yes, I would warmth that! Thank you, bye!